Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/10/1996 02:08 PM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
WORK SESSION ON HB 348
February 10, 1996
2:08 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair
Representative Joe Green
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Caren Robinson
Representative Ed Willis
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ivan Ivan
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 348
"An Act requiring that all official interviews with children who
are alleged to have been abused or neglected be videotaped or
audiotaped."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 348
SHORT TITLE: VIDEO/AUDIOTAPE INTERVIEW OF ABUSED MINOR
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES, Therriault, Kelly, Toohey
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
05/13/95 2173 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
05/13/95 2174 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, HES, JUD, FINANCE
08/26/95 (H) STA AT 01:00 PM
08/26/95 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/08/96 2383 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KELLY, TOOHEY
01/23/96 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/23/96 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/10/96 (H) STA AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 102
WITNESS REGISTER
DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 111200
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200
Telephone: (907) 465-4322
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 348.
DIANE WORLEY, Director
Division of Family and Youth Services
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110630
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0630
Telephone: (907) 465-3191
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 348.
YVONNE CHASE, Deputy Commissioner
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110601
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601
Telephone: (907) 465-3030
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 348.
JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director
Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 111200
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200
Telephone: (907) 465-4356
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 348.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-13, SIDE A
Number 0000
The work session was called to order by Chair Jeannette James at
2:08 p.m. Members present at the call to order were
Representatives James, Ogan, Robinson and Willis. Members absent
were Representatives Ivan, Green and Porter.
CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES announced the meeting this afternoon was a
work session to address the concerns and ideas of the various
interested parties regarding HB 348 which would require
video/audiotaping of all interviews with children in cases of
alleged abuse.
CHAIR JAMES said as members of the public sign-in she would
announce their name so that everyone here today would know who was
present.
CHAIR JAMES announced the deliberations today would be taped and
brief notes would be taken but not transcribed. Therefore, she
suggested the work session members take personal notes. She
further announced the work session would be very informal, however,
it would be necessary to recognize each speaker to assure that the
tape of this meeting would be credible.
CHAIR JAMES said as Chair and sponsor of HB 348 she wanted to make
it perfectly clear the intent of the work session today was to
establish more accountability with supportive evidence for the
Division of Family and Youth Services (DFYS). She further stated
young people were very vulnerable and that each child was an
individual and many times did not fit the mold that was expected of
a particular age or gender group. Therefore, it was very possible
for an interviewer to ask the wrong questions and receive the wrong
answers. She further stated she believed and supported the notion
that leading questions could make wrong impressions, and the
impressionable child could begin to believe what they said.
Therefore, there must be a way to verify that there was no undue
persuasion or lack of due diligence on the part of the interviewer
to get to the truth. She cited it was possible to make false
accusations as well as assume valid accusations were false.
CHAIR JAMES further stated she believed everyone that interviewed
a child under these circumstances would prefer to have evidence
supporting their decisions and an ability for a second opinion
without having to subject the child to additional interrogations.
Therefore, the work session today was to determine how to make this
work. She asserted it was not an option to continue as usual and
not address the problem. Moreover, as well as determining how this
might work, the work session members needed to provide a way to
accomplish this goal with the least amount of spending possible or
it would just be defeated in the House Standing Finance Committee.
She announced the goal was to have this bill signed into law.
CHAIR JAMES explained she did not require all of the House State
Affairs Committee members to be present today.
REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON suggested including one or two key
witnesses at the table.
The record reflected Representative Ivan Ivan was not present today
due to an illness.
Number 0484
CHAIR JAMES read the following list of witnesses present into the
record.
Diane Worley, Division of Family and Youth Services; Lauree
Hugonin, Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault;
Nina Kinney, Division of Family and Youth Services; Carla Timpone,
Legislative Assistant to Representative Caren Robinson; Del Smith,
Department of Public Safety; Jayne Andreen, Council on Domestic
Violence and Sexual Assault; Anne Carpeneti, Department of Law;
Yvonne Chase, Department of Health and Social Services; Chris
Stockard, Department of Public Safety; Elmer Lindstrom, Department
of Health and Social Services; Wilda Whitaker, Legislative
Assistant to Representative Gene Therriault; Hans Neidig,
Legislative Assistant to Representative Scott Ogan; Bill Stoltz,
Legislative Assistant to Representative Ed Willis; Myrna McGhie,
Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeannette James; and
Barbara Cotting, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeannette
James.
Number 0615
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON suggested testimony from the departments to
determine what interviewing techniques were used across the state.
She also cited a working group protocol used during the Cowper
Administration.
Number 0700
CHAIR JAMES referred the work session members to a letter dated
February 9, 1996 from the Department of Public Safety addressing
the current status of interview rooms. She stated revisions were
needed to include the bush communities and suggested a phasing-in
approach to make it physically and financially feasible.
Consequently, the public would feel like the bill was moving in a
direction of accountability. She further said she appreciated the
workers in the social service area, because their decisions were
difficult and the repercussions were great. Therefore, the more
accountability and focus established, the better off the workers,
families, and children affected would be.
CHAIR JAMES announced the presence of Representative Brian Porter.
She further announced Representatives: Ogan, Willis and Robinson
were present for the record.
Number 0830
DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Public Safety, said he still opposed mandatory
audio/videotaping interviews of alleged abuse. He stated it was
best to videotape or audiotape, however, he was concerned about the
broadness of HB 348. He cited it ranged from the teacher at the
school to the Department of Law to audio/videotape the interview.
He further said he was concerned about the potential of an
interviewer to lead the questions, and stated a bad interview was
a bad interview whether it was taped or not. Therefore, training,
qualifications, and availability of videotapes were the issues. He
further stated the courts mandated an audio record of all criminal
interviews, and in some cases a videotape was used for major cases,
but it was not mandated. He asserted his overall concern was a
case being "flushed" because an interview was not recorded.
Number 1025
CHAIR JAMES responded that was the type of constructive comments
she wanted to hear today.
Number 1089
DIANE WORLEY, Director, Division of Family and Youth Services,
Department of Health and Social Services, said mandatory
video/audiotaping interviews would not address the core issues.
The issues were training, and appropriate techniques. Therefore,
as Director of DFYS she would like to focus on interview training
techniques; providing enough supervision; and reviewing, and
updating policy and procedure manuals. She cited training was
reviewed recently resulting in three regional trainers statewide
focusing on supervision and interview training techniques. She
also cited the division was looking at accrediting the staff to set
certain standards. She asserted concentrating on the above would
provide accountability.
CHAIR JAMES announced the presence of Representative Joe Green for
the record.
Number 1296
YVONNE CHASE, Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Health and Social Services, referred to a multi-
department agreement made in 1984 to accomplish the very idea being
discussed today - to minimize the trauma to a child through
repeated interviews. However, the departments had not been
following the agreement. When it was followed it worked
successfully, she stated. It provided accountability and
collaboration across agencies. She explained as part of the DFYS
training program, staff were required to do mock videotape
interviews. However, funding was not available for regular on-
going training. Ms. Chase suggested a collaborative effort with
the Department of Public Safety to train interviewers because both
departments approached the interview with a case plan in mind. She
also cited more evidence training was needed and again suggested a
collaborate effort with the Department of Public Safety. She
alleged when the agreement was being used it was helpful for the
victims and for training. However, she stated, she was opposed to
mandating the process. She cited DFYS social workers requested to
use an audiotape during an interview, but the resources were not
available to audiotape every case. She agreed a phasing-in
approach was best to determine the pit falls, additional expenses,
problems, and benefits associated with this type of effort.
Number 1535
CHAIR JAMES said she would like to read the multi-department
agreement Ms. Chase referenced. She wondered if there were parts
of the agreement that could be put into a statute.
Number 1565
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN apologized for not being at the last
meeting where HB 348 was discussed and asked what the problem was
the committee was trying to solve.
Number 1580
CHAIR JAMES replied the bill was intended to minimize false
accusations and provide accountability. She said an
audio/videotape interview would protect both sides and provide
evidence. She visualized the tape would be available in the event
the allegation was challenged. Furthermore, based on department
testimony, the tape provided an additional training component.
Number 1771
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN wondered if an audiotape would be less
stressful for the child.
CHAIR JAMES replied HB 348 required either a video or audiotape.
She said the sticky issue was mandating the interview in the event
something went awry. She cited there was the possibility of a one-
way mirror interview room so the video camera did not interfere
during the interview.
Number 1813
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER referred the work session members to a
protocol document published in 1987. It mentioned the prudence of
video/audiotaping of interviews and sharing it with other agencies
to prevent repeated interviews. It also supported the notion a
recording was needed for critical interviews. He suggested
recirculating the document and referring to it in a statute. He
stated it would be tragic to mandate an interview and not have the
necessary technical equipment.
Number 1882
CHAIR JAMES said she was already convinced the technical aspect was
a problem.
Number 1885
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON commented she felt better because everyone
agreed mandating an interview was a problem. However, the
established protocol needed to be encouraged again. She cited it
started under the Sheffield Administration and was reexamined again
under the Cowper Administration. The concept was to provide
accountability between the departments, provide joint training when
possible, and minimize the trauma to the children and the families.
She wondered about the status of a project in Anchorage at
Providence Hospital.
Number 1978
MS. CHASE responded the project Representative Robinson referred to
was to interview child sexual abuse allegations only. The plan was
to start in two month so next year data would be available. She
further responded DFYS tried several years ago to establish a
competency based training curriculum to show proficiency skills.
However, the funds were not secured. There was initial training
for new staff, but not on-going training. She further said the
Department of Education was the missing link in the agreement to
provide accountability at the schools.
Number 2109
CHAIR JAMES said a school teacher was the most important
occupation. She cited she was a parent for 19 foster children and
therefore had the opportunity to deal with individuals in the
social service field. She said some were good and some were bad
and suggested additional training would have made things easier.
She stated she received bad advice and saw the consequences in the
children. She cited one of her foster children took her life as a
result of bad advice.
Number 2185
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered how quickly the departments could
review and update the protocol to activate it again. She also
wondered what type of legislation would be necessary to ensure
accountability through the different Administrations.
CHAIR JAMES mentioned Kimberly Homme, Special Assistant to the
Commissioner, Department of Education, was present in the audience.
Number 2222
JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, Council on Domestic Violence and
Sexual Assault, Department of Public Safety, said the Council was
responsible for the protocol report, and as a result of
Representative Robinson's bringing to her attention the fact the
report had not been reviewed since 1987, it was now part of the
work plan. She said it could be expanded to include all abuse and
neglect.
Number 2260
CHAIR JAMES said it was her understanding the other abuse and
neglect was more controversial than sexual abuse. She further said
the family and the love of a parent were very important and
splitting a family was a serious action. Parents loved their
children, and children loved their parents, even when there was
abuse. She stated biological ties were stronger than recognized
and experienced it first hand as a foster parent.
Number 2328
MS. WORLEY responded the agreement needed to be broadened to
coordinate all of the efforts for families and children to ensure
their needs were met.
Number 2392
MS. CHASE said the agreement needed to be required rather than
encouraged.
Number 2442
CHAIR JAMES suggested a working group to monitor and recommend new
methods. She stated there were changes and new ideas everyday
warranting a watchdog group.
TAPE 96-13, SIDE B
Number 0045
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON replied an easy watchdog agency would be
the Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault because it was
a group comprised of commissioner designees from the Department of
Education, the Department of Health and Social Services, the
Department of Public Safety, and three public members appointed by
the Governor. She reiterated it would be an easy agency that
already existed to give that authority to.
Number 0075
CHAIR JAMES said she would rather have a more gender neutral group,
because, currently, the focus was on the protection of women and
children.
Number 0087
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said the members were a mixture of men and
women. The Council was established under the Department of Public
Safety to emphasize the criminal aspect of domestic violence. She
reiterated the Council was an already existing group, and it was
not the program making the determination, but the Commissioners of
the agencies under the group.
Number 0125
CHAIR JAMES said she saw it more as a women's issue than a family
issue, and was concerned the Council would lose its credibility by
expanding into other areas.
Number 0167
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN wondered about the reporting of child
abuse in general. He questioned why there was such an increase in
child abuse, and wondered if it was due to the reporting, the
times, or the methods.
Number 0252
CHAIR JAMES replied it was a combination of all three of the things
Representative Green mentioned. She stated it was a different
world now. She said there were problems then but they were not
recognized. She further said the economy was bad, and drugs and
alcohol were more prevalent. She also cited the reporting was more
intense now.
Number 0283
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER responded the problems have not changed, but
the attitudes and education about the problems have changed. He
recalled years ago receiving information about alleged abuse but it
was abhorrent to discuss it.
Number 0322
CHAIR JAMES said it was costly to address the issue for families
and society.
Number 0330
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON replied society had come a long way. She
said Alaska was ahead of many parts of the country because the
legislature saw fit to establish the Council on Domestic Violence
and Sexual Assault. She said Alaska was ranked number one in the
nation due to the transient and young population in domestic
violence. She also cited there were more places to get help from
today which contributed to the increase in cases reported.
Number 0420
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER cited his experience with an advocacy group
many years ago that feared the justice system and did not cooperate
with law enforcement. Consequently, it resulted in protocols
established throughout the system, and now agencies and law
enforcement work closely together.
CHAIR JAMES announced Rich Calamari was listening via
teleconference in Valdez.
Number 0474
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered why Alaska ranked high statistically
when it had the best programs in the country. He wondered if there
were micro areas in the country to compare to.
Number 0530
MS. CHASE replied, yes, there was a report just released that
looked at programs across the U.S. She further stated until the
federal child abuse and neglect prevention treatment act was passed
in the late 1970's there was not a mechanism for victims to report
incidents of abuse. She said Alaska was one of the first states to
develop an effective reporting approach. In the report other
states showed low incidences of abuse, but in the case of
Pennsylvania, for example, it did not recognize neglect until
recently, skewing the numbers.
Number 0604
CHAIR JAMES said she remembered when the federal act went into
effect. She stated people knew of abuse but would not say anything
for fear of being sued. The federal act gave amnesty and required
doctors and teachers to report suspected cases of abuse. She said
it went too far when anonymous people could report suspected cases
which resulted in negative unintended consequences.
Number 0725
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered if there was a way to treat the cause
and not the symptom. He said the child was not guilty in the case
of abuse, the adult was guilty.
Number 0735
CHAIR JAMES cited a case on television in Michigan where the focus
was to try and keep a family together. The family received
treatment and ten years later were still together. She also cited
a foster girl abused by her father who still had a good father-
daughter relationship which was hard for her to accept.
Number 0850
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON explained the high level of alcoholism in
Alaska also contributed to the problem of abuse. She further
explained the abuse usually occurred within the family, and the
children just wanted the abuse to stop and not for the family to
break-up. She further explained there was a shift towards giving
power to the victim. She stated all these issues created a major
policy change.
Number 0948
CHAIR JAMES stated there was a focused agreement among the work
session members, and suggested appointing a few people to work on
a committee substitute incorporating a phasing period and trial
area. She called for volunteers. The following individuals
volunteered: Representatives Robinson, Porter and James; Yvonne
Chase; Diane Worley; Del Smith and/or Lt. Stockard.
CHAIR JAMES announced she was pleased with the work session today.
Number 1065
MS. WORLEY said she felt great and thanked Chair James for
organizing the work session.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIR JAMES adjourned the work session.
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